Value-First Partner - Apr 9, 2026

[00:04] **Introduction** Chris Carolan: Good morning, LinkedIn friends. Value First Nation, welcome to another episode of Value First Partner, hanging out with our favorite Value First partner, Risky Barnett. How are you doing, man? Crispy Barnett: Good, always happy to be here. Chris Carolan: Awesome, awesome. Uh I know your week's going well. Uh, I already imagined it is because you're focused on this principle or this commitment, uh, specifically usually, uh, when we when we talk about strategy and how to treat partners. Um, going to talk about commitment number two, uh, purpose over transactions, uh, today. And like before I read like the commitment and what it means, like just purpose over transactions. Like what comes to mind when I, when I say that phrase? Crispy Barnett: Purpose over transactions to me means you're building a partnership that has value beyond just a monetary trade, in that sense, where, uh, I think examples of this that I'd see where there's purpose over transactions are things like HubSpot's, you know, heavy partnership that exists with AirCall, like one of the first major app partners that existed in the ecosystem, even though there was monetary value as part of the partnership, it was a, you make our product better and we want to, uh, continue to have you serve our customers, and the purpose was solving for the customer, not solving for trying to get as much revenue as possible, even though that was a side effect of that. So, that's how I think of that.

[03:07] **Commitment Number Two** Chris Carolan: Yeah, that makes sense. Um, I have some examples, but I'm going to read through, uh, what the commitment means, uh, just to set the foundation. Uh, so, commitment number two, um, we align on purpose over transaction criteria. We believe authentic partnerships form around shared purpose and aligned values rather than rigid qualification checklists. We commit to starting relationships by understanding deeper motivations and goals, rather than surface level qualification requirements. Um, so we do things like exploring why organizations exist and the collaborative potential, not just what they need to buy. Uh, we seek alignment on fundamental goals and values rather than demographic matching. Build connections around shared vision rather than transaction details or qualification scores. Create space for purpose to emerge in early conversations rather than rushing to qualification checkpoints, and we design partnerships with long-term shared objectives rather than short-term conversion goals. And, um, so easy to call this one out, but I'm going to keep doing it until until people stop doing it, which is like when people, when when app partners specifically usually, or other solutions partners, you know, as uh, you know, the ecosystem has grown and you know, marketing focused agencies realize they didn't have any RO ops chops, but they had a lot of customers asking for it. So there's all this interplay inside the ecosystem. And when the first, like, it's funny because it's like, oh, don't worry, we're going to give you 20%. Like, so is that cool and now we can talk about the partnership as if that's like the first thing that that I need to hear, right? And it's like meanwhile, when you dig in, it's like the the purpose is like we need more visibility or we need more customers or we need, like it's everything but the 20%. And so that's what I think of and when we start with the transaction, it is so hard to get a partner manager who's probably never been asked to think about it in this way. Um, it's not in their KPIs. But when I can say like, hey, we're both looking for exposure and audience. Let's do some content together, right? They can't even compute that as an option, right? Um, and it's hard not to feel like we're a broken record again, but uh, again, if if people keep showing up like this and partners, managers and partner directors keep showing up with like, this is how I get more partners, we're going to keep talking about it. Um, as you I imagine this went into some of your like your your partner choices um, as you've moved into your your new role, right? Crispy Barnett: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it's uh, it it's something that I I search for heavily whenever I qualify new partnerships. Uh, especially there there's a couple of main things that I look for. One is the quality of the product and whether I can integrate it into an existing service or build a new service line around it. Two is the resources that I get that are not arbitrary. And usually the arbitrary resources are, I have this partner manager who is fucking useless. You get access to a partner stack account and then I you just slack where I'm going to harass you for leads. Those three things mean nothing to me. Uh, the things that I actually look for are, what do you do with partners outside of those arbitrary things to actually improve the way they go to market or improve the way that they deliver services or integrate this into their own business or even use this on their own. Those are the big things that are meaningful and impactful to me. Uh, I think the the gap that I see here most of the time whenever I disqualify people is partner managers do not understand how service businesses work, generally, in my experience. I've had one good PDM, it's my existing PDM that I have now, thank God. I got my old one that I had. I've only ever had one good PDM from HubSpot before. The rest just do not understand the mechanics of the way a service business works entirely. It's just like not it's it's much it's much harder to sell a HubSpot implementation to a customer than it is to sell HubSpot. And I don't think most PDMs know that because you are the deliverer of value, not HubSpot, which means you have to scope everything very, very heavily and you you have to take into account all of the situations and problems and solutions that need to be created from the customer, especially when there's migration and stuff like that involved. So I think that the big gap and weakness in in this area and partner programs is that partner managers don't come from partner land. And that's where they fail. Chris Carolan: So what is this this partner manager doing differently that the the other ones did not do? Crispy Barnett: This partner manager came from partner land. That's the big difference. Yeah. He was at a partner agency and so he was also in private equity and shout out Justin Justin Culberg is my my PDM. He's amazing. Um, he he fully understands the way that uh service businesses work and he's not his his intent is to not sacrifice the quality of the implementation or the scope for the sake of hitting his own quota because he wants to solve for the customer. And for me, that's purpose over transaction. Chris Carolan: Yeah. And the purpose being solving for the customer. Crispy Barnett: Yes, exactly.

[11:31] **Other Examples of Purpose Driven Partnerships** Chris Carolan: Um, I think uh, because it should be so obvious. Um, so I'm working through the ways that we could help this connect. Um, I imagine you have some other examples from the partners you've chosen, you have chosen. Like maybe some things that ask Elephant does or, you know, your your preferred partners um that maybe you could highlight to show that like we aligned, you know, here first and and now this is where it's like I think a key part uh of these value first commitments, it's not instead of transactions. Like we still need the transactions to happen, it's just we're prioritizing purpose because then the transactions actually happen. Crispy Barnett: Yeah, right? Crispy Barnett: Yeah. ask Elephant's a really good example and a really good use case where I think that they they check all the boxes for me uh at a product level and more and their partner support is incredible. Like they they flew me out to Salt Lake City and showed me like, here's our office, here's our roadmap that you can't share with anyone. Here's our intent for how we want to work with partners in the future. Give us your feedback on that because it directly impacts the success of our partner program. Uh and and things along those lines in the sense of they take feedback very seriously and they're actually a customer of ours now where that we actually become their kind of implementation uh force of their business because they realize, okay, cool, this is helping to solve for customers. If we're solving for customers, we are willing to pay to do that. And that's where you're building really nice partnerships that have purpose driven intent with the side not side effect, but outcome being transactions and like revenue everywhere for all parties, but it's because you lead with purpose driven intent, not because you think about it as an afterthought. Chris Carolan: Yeah. Like that's what I mean what should be obvious at this point, like and this has been a big part of the I'll say at least HubSpot as a platform mantra uh in terms of like you know, solve for the customer, like help businesses grow better. And then surprise, everybody gets more revenue, right? Instead of just trying to transact and and and profit, um, which is important, but it's so easy to see like when you when it's prioritized and the bottom line gets prioritized, it gets easy for people and that's where it's like having empathy for the people that are charged with okay, revenue's my number, I got to like whatever it takes, it's so easy to get get off track um, when it comes to um there's something you said about ask elephant that triggered an idea and I I lost it. Um, but this concept of uh kind of working together, like as you learned how they work. Oh, what it was is like you start to look for flags. Like this doesn't have to be like, oh, let's do a six-month discovery session like so we can figure out the purpose and where the alignment. Yeah. What came to mind is like their understanding of where they fit in the ecosystem and the stack, right? Is like perfect. And when we think about you know, because it used to be just from a functionality perspective, you knew like if uh, you know, companies like Eros for example, like they developed for HubSpot, they built for HubSpot and whenever an app partner said and showed that they did that, it carries all of this other meaning with it, right? It's like you don't have to qualify all these other things because you know they're not going to fight you on where the customers should be doing stuff, right? It's in HubSpot and that means when they're talking to us as partners, we're trying to deliver HubSpot, right? Not your stuff and then maybe HubSpot. It's always HubSpot and we you know, bring it in when we can. Um, so what are the aside from solve for customer? Are there any other kind of flags where it's like if we just figured this part out first, the rest like gets gets easier or we can just, you know, part ways like quicker? Crispy Barnett: Uh I mean it's it I don't want to say red flags in the sense of like things that I notice immediately besides the the arbitrary items. If someone says the word partner stack to me, I'm immediately like fuck you. Like not doing that. Partner stack's an awful platform and I've do not like them. Uh, two is uh, I'd like to back channel with other partners. I think this is where the partner ecosystem with HubSpot is uh very powerful in the sense of it's a small world and if you are shitty, everyone knows you're shitty because everyone talks about it, especially at unbound, whatever the fuck it's called now, you will get roasted at the bars there. So, it red flags would be I ask around to my peers, my network and my friends in the ecosystem to see is this place legit or is it not? So, uh that that's a big one. It's just back channeling. Um, number two is uh, I guess there's a second layer of back channeling which is back channeling with HubSpot directly in the sense of, hey, how is this app partner? Are they, you know, certified or whatever, you know, stuff like that? Tell me about your experience or if you have any other partners that use them. And then number three would be I want to see the the partner manager demo the product specifically. Because if they don't know the product and they're not able to demo it in a way that's comfortable, then it's okay, you're likely not not a good fit. You're not a good partner manager overall if you can't speak to the product or sell it in a way that is meaningful. Chris Carolan: Yeah. Um, yeah, that brought to mind like them like ask elephant sharing the roadmap you know, with you and that level of transparency, right? It's kind of like the the classic case, like you can't avoid the back channels. So just like embrace them, be transparent with the people that you want to work with. And then all of a sudden there's just less space for like dysfunction to happen. Um, but it's when you can understand that the full perspective and that's why there's like seven commitments here, like you start to piece together. Okay, if they're not being transparent or if they lead with like the 20% out of the gate, that probably also means they're not as transparent as they need to be. They want to create exclusive exclusivity. They want to do these things that just will not work in the modern, you know, it's it's antithesis to solving for the customer, right? In a lot of cases. Um, and being purpose driven. And a lot of times, I mean there's opportunity here, especially when it's new partner programs. Like it doesn't mean you can't work to where you want to go when the product is good and when you know leadership has a great vision. But when they you know, it's hard to get this kind of education out there, I think. Like if you go look up or even ask AI how to build out a partner program, like it's going to start with a lot of the you know, poor practice, poor practices that we're talking about. Um, so uh any other like green flags um you you try to look for or just um is it should we not over complicate it and just be like, are you trying to solve for the customer or not? Crispy Barnett: I mean yeah, I mean ultimately that's probably the qualifying question of above anything else is is are you actually uh motivated with genuine intent, which is a hard one for someone to answer honestly, I think. Uh, but other green flags um Hm. Chris Carolan: Yeah, so let's go there. Let's say like this person maybe that was never, they've never had to answer that question before. They're like, oh yeah, of course. We we try to solve for the customer. What's your next? What's your next question? Crispy Barnett: How? Give me give me a like a thorough example with real they will stumble immediately. Chris Carolan: Exactly. Crispy Barnett: Yeah, exactly. Crispy Barnett: It would be prove it, would be, would be the the response and I don't think that many uh partners would be able to. But other green flags, um, I I would say, uh, whenever I see companies that have partner programs that deeply celebrate their partner's success, uh whether it's with one of their customers or not, specifically as a as a sub point to that, that to me is a major green flag, where it's there's a genuine vested interest in their own success even if it means they're not selling their product directly. That's that's really cool to see and I think there's only a few partner programs that actually do that. Um, but it's always cool to see that because you really only celebrate yourself, your PDM celebrates you as a partner and then maybe some other, you know, smaller HubSpot teams internally here and there. Uh, but when you have other partners also celebrating your tear up or some big win that you had, whatever it is, that's how you know you're backed by, you know, a good company that wants to see you succeed. Chris Carolan: Yeah. I think that's that's huge and also like all these secondary green flags, like they probably know how to market then. Like they probably get at marketing too. Like cuz like you know, um highlighting other people uh is one of the better ways that you can market. Um Yeah. And I think it leads us into like what we're going to be talking about next week. Um about commitment number three, which is we will enable natural value flow over artificial barriers. And that is why the person will stumble on that second question because everything is process driven and it's like, oh, even if they try to explain how they solve for customers, if they don't, then they're only going to be able to highlight like basically barriers um that they put in place to try and confirm that they're solving for the customer and that's just you know, that's the opposite of of letting the value flow. Um, so that's what we'll be talking about next week. Uh, a pleasure as always, man. Appreciate you stopping by today. Crispy Barnett: Yeah, no, thanks again. Chris Carolan: All right, have a great day everybody. See you next time.